Welcome to Between the Threads, a podcast exploring the threads that connect us, story, memory, identity, and meaning, and how they weave the fabric of peace in our lives and communities. Between the Threads is a joint initiative between Kahanee and Narratives. Kahanee is a nonprofit organization that amplifies storytelling for peace building, and Narratives is an award-winning planning and design firm based in Winnipeg, Canada. Today's conversation is with two incredible human beings, probably two of my favorite human beings, Divya Sharma and Salena Starling. I'll read out their bios to you and then I will tell you a little bit about how I met them. Divya Sharma is a young Canadian civic leader based in Winnipeg. She attended the University of Manitoba, rising through student governance. Divya was the president of the University of Manitoba Students Union Beyond campus life, Divya serves as a youth advisor to a Canadian senator and as a UNICEF UReport ambassador. She's active in youth policy and community engagement. recently engaging in discussions on AI literacy and innovation with provincial leaders, reflecting her interest in shaping social policy, equity, and ethical technology use. Salena Starling is a swampy Cree woman now based in Winnipeg. She endured the foster care system from early childhood, a generational trauma that has deeply shaped her values and started public speaking at the age of 11. and has used her lived experience to raise awareness about the challenges faced by Indigenous youth, especially those who have experienced care. Today, Salena is the president and CEO of Community of Big Hearts, an organization she co-founded to create meaningful reconciliation and support for Indigenous youth and communities. I first met Divya and Salena a few years ago at a CanU event where I was speaking to uh students from grades seven, eight and nine. And that was my first time meeting them. And I just remember feeling so inspired by these two young women and knowing in my heart of hearts that they were up to amazing things and they were going to be just soaring with their energy. and their beautiful, beautiful leadership skills. And sure enough, by the time the event was done, we were already thinking about ways to collaborate and what we could do together. So when I did get a chance to sit down with them uh on this episode of the podcast, what really stood out for me was just how grounded they were and hearing their journey of how they build connections, who they are, what community means to them. how they bring community together in story are just like beautiful examples of what storytelling can do in our communities. Enjoy the show. It's always a start. like, how do you start the conversation? Okay, so I want to thank you both for being here today. This is fantastic. I really appreciate it. I know how busy you both are and to have both of you together in one room is extra special. So thank you for making the time. Thank you. So usually we'll ask people to tell us a little bit about themselves. I'm going to switch it up because I love you and I think you can do this. How would someone describe you? So Salena, I'll ask you to go first. How would someone describe you? I've been described many ways and I love this question so much because I don't ever get to like look at myself in that way. I found recently, although I've been very outgoing previously in my past life of Winnipeg and 14 year old me, I was very outgoing. But recently I really channeled my introverted side. And I think that's coming out in a really beautiful way. where I get to be fully something that's darling and I say I'm something that's darling all the time that's beautiful and getting to not have to be over the top and have to prove myself to anybody I think that's really showing to other people now and so getting being told that I'm more introverted recently has become more of a compliment because I've been very myself. And then I've also just been on the ball, uh which I... have never seen myself. And so I think like just how fast... and I think witty I think people would describe me as. don't, I think Divya would describe me differently though. Yeah. Yeah. That's a great question. So for me, one of my favorite nicknames that I actually recently got was Supernova. Oh yeah. I actually fall in love with it because people call people a star and the moon and then... recently called me a supernova. And I like I thought about that actually quite profoundly. I thought about what that meant and how it's almost like all encompassing. It's unique and different in its own way. And I think ah but it still has a collection of the stars that are around it. And I think that's very special for me because whenever I think about myself, I don't want to think about myself just as an individual. think these are obviously indigenous teachings, teachings from my own home, I'm an Indian up at job. Just the idea that we are not individuals, of course individuality is really important, but we're so connected and rooted with our ancestors or customs or practices. And I think that compliment meant that to me or that nickname meant that to me. And I think there's so many dimensions that people bring to the table and I think just recognizing that was super, super special. that's one way I think I could describe myself. I love those descriptions of both of you. I, Salena, I love that you talked about being an introvert. And I think what really stood out for me was how important that alignment with who you truly are and how people see you is, which is easier said than done. And, you know, it comes through a lot of hard work and through a lot of work on yourself over the years. So I'll, I'd love to hear more about that a little bit. What, what is inspired or what do you think has shifted What do you think has shifted recently that has allowed you to better see that introvert self of yours and celebrate it? Yeah, think recently I've been figuring out why I was a public speaker, most importantly for me, because that's always been, I've always said I'm a public speaker since I was 11. But recently I've gotten some international accreditation for the work I've been doing. And I think this is the first time I went to United Nations and represented. Canada, I realized then and there that I didn't have to prove myself to anybody because I accomplished every single dream that I've ever dreamt in my entire life. being asked by Canada to represent Canada, the United Nations, was just the peak, or what I thought was the peak of my career, especially as a public speaker. And so not having to prove myself to not my country, to not the world because I had made it. and I had represented my country in such a way, I felt like I didn't have to pretend to be this huge public speaker anymore because I already was. And I was becoming a person that I had always wanted to be, the person I could create, speak on a world stage. And the fact that I had, I didn't feel like I had to overcome the stigma anymore. Being at events, I remember being so young with Divya and we'd have to like be the shining stars in the book, we're using star and star and getting to be outgoing and be kind of the people who are center of attention just because that's the only reason people would talk to us is because we're the... ones that were like, we have to talk to you. And now I've a space where I don't feel like I need to be that person anymore. I've accomplished so much that I don't need external validation because I'm already validated enough in who I am and my role as a public speaker. And so when I'm entering rooms and spaces, I can just let myself breathe and let myself be who I am. And it's just, it's been so amazing getting to be my authentic self to the world because I've proved to myself that I am this magnificent public speaker that I am who I always wanted to be. And that's just Salena Starling. I love, I love how that comes from a place of such beautiful self-confidence and not at all in an arrogant way, but just like really grounded way. So that really stands out. And, know, for anyone who's watching, for anyone who's listening, that's the kind of confidence that you want to have. I'm sure, you're inspiring so many young folks. And especially when you talked about, you know, being 11 and already knowing you're a public speaker. I remember when I was that age, I would stand in front this fish aquarium at home, and I would stand in of the aquarium and pretend these were... and pick a random topic and talk as if, you know, I was giving a little talk on stage. And sometimes I would even dress up for it just so I could feel that confidence. And my parents would say, So I love that that's something that you knew always that was going to be a part of who you are. and just not needing that validation from the world anymore, because you see that in yourself. That's beautiful. Thank you. Divya, you talked about being, I love that nickname, by the way. Absolutely. I would support that nickname for you. Very good. Absolutely. When you think about the people around you, I'd love to hear more about the nature of that relationship, how you feel when you enter a room and everyone... sees that there's Divya and there's something beautiful about to happen. What does it look like the other way around when you enter a room? What is that reciprocity that you receive when you enter a room? It's a profound question. I think, honestly, just coming back to like the analogy that Salena just talked about, think when we were, so when we were younger, we used to go to these events for the Winnipeg Chamber of Commerce. And we, I think we've grown up woken up to so many great ventures, maybe... Choi, Sheeraj, uh she's an absolute icon, and Lauren Remlard, like all these folks who are just like powerhouses. So just when we entered these rooms, we saw a room full of opportunity. uh How do we make connections that aren't just, you know, arbitrary or... like we were talking about earlier, aren't just left to that small conversation. We wanted to really know. what was beyond that person. Like what story did they have to tell? What story did they have to share? How did they get to the point where they are today? Because I think for Salena and I, like we wanted role models and we wanted that at a very, very young age. I remember like us going on. uh the bus when were in Angel. I remember that. In my school, it's like we're just coming out of the pandemic. wearing our masks and we're like okay we're skipping class today actually to go to the Wimpy Chamber Cars event where we're see all these cool people and like our toes would be freezing we're like talking we're like looking through the list and we're like and we would match I think it's these crazy things. And then I remember like us sitting on the bus and we like looking through the list like, hey, who's gonna be there? Who are we gonna talk to today? And I remember like us going to the first ever event talking to like the mayor at the time and we were just like, what like, and we made This is like hilarious. didn't know who Lauren was. We Liz when I was... was! Lauren, promise. I was I always feed for myself. But I didn't know who Lauren was and I remember like us meeting Liz and we were like, whoa, like she's so cool. Because like what a powerhouse. And we met the mayor and we met Councilman Marcus Chambers and we're like, oh, like we need to like, you know, have this as a memory. We had just gotten like LinkedIn at that point to like, Hey, we need to this is I remember this very clearly. This is our first post on LinkedIn. And guess who took that photo? Lauren. I mean, was like, well, I didn't know it was know you were like, cause you were like, need someone. pointed at Lauren. Can we get him to get the photo? Liz was like, after the photo was like, Divya. was the CEO of the world. We didn't have to be the intruders ourselves. We just were like, our photo. it. So it's great. But I think that's what happens when you walk into a when you're like, I think when you're there for like genuine connection and like, when you're not, I don't want to see expecting anything out of it. But when you're there with a pure intention, and I've said this to Leena and we talk about this quite often. I think when you're leaving with the right intention like automatically kind of go your way and that's how it's kind of gone for us. So from that experience I think when I walk into a room and I think I can say this for Salena, we see a room full of opportunities, we see a room full of people who we can connect with, learn from, learn with and make CEOs take photos of us. beautiful. For all the CEOs out there, if you find these too, they're making you take photos of them. I love that story. Thank you so much for sharing. it reminds me similarly of my early days in Canada, where if I was going to an event, I would look at the guest list, like who's there. And this is like pre-Google days. It was harder to find out about people, but I would try to like, who's there? What's their position? and what is the student doing, what's their goal, and I would ask how do you approach those conversations, and I'm a student, not a holiday student. So for me, program was ambitious sometimes, but I had to go and connect with people, but what I loved was, when I was able to make that connection, that was really meaningful. And those are still connections that are very much meaningful connections for me, for me today. What, I love the story of all the shenanigans that we've all got. How did you actually meet? How did you connect with us? Divya, I've heard you say the story a lot. Yeah, I I talk with this all the time because it's like it's it's so vivid. And like I remember exactly how it happened. I think we were in seventh grade. Yeah, we were in seventh grade. Yeah. So the building was still just as crazy, like nothing really changed. So we met at this program called CanU Canada? We were on the Valentine campus. So essentially, just to give a bit of background, CanU basically an after school sort of program, but it's a lot more than that because it has components of, you know, summer leadership, uh leadership in terms of public speaking. think that's where Stephen and I learned how to public speak. So essentially, we're on the back of the campus through that after school program. we learning about, uh I think dentistry that week. And Salena had a plate of pizza, and I had my plate of pizza. And we're just like, we're talking. I think that was, that was our first sort of interaction. But then we did the summer program together, which was summer leadership program. And then we just similar in the sense that we wanted to always be out there and talk to people and we just had a really great event. who always pushed us to do more and better. And I think that's where we've got a lot of our like ground foundational work. um And then later on, Salena actually switched schools to my school. uh So that we were at the college and we could get together and move there and ask them if they're going to the hood. these chamber events together. We were like 17, 15, 16, 17. Yeah. And then we started working on a number of projects together. Our favorite project which took like three years to do but it's I think one of the coolest ones was we planted a beautiful at the back on the ground and essentially the big idea is that there's a medicine field around an old tree and it took a lot of like consultation with elders, the community students obviously administration, and there were a lot of components involved, but it was during COVID. And I think that's what really allowed like Salena. and I, our relationship to clerics even more. we were like, what I like, we don't even know any people who are like that age working on like cool projects like this, let alone like once again, around in heels. I still don't know who does that. Like it's it's way too cool for that. Yeah. Not something you'd recommend people to do? I would. would do it. We did a little something like that. So then we... kind of going through a lot of like different things together. So we would do events together. We would speak at events together. And then just like, I guess, hanging out. But hanging out was really different. I'm I'm like, yeah, I'm I'm I'm yeah, I'm like, yeah, Divya and I were gonna be lifelong friends was when she was able to call me out on things. And there was this one moment Divya we're like in Can you like I think the public speaking program, had to like write down a speech or something. And Divya looked at my writing. She was like, Salena, you have terrible handwriting. And she was like, I expected so much more from you. I said that. Yes you did. I was like, okay. Well, we're real and raw over here. Yes, this person is able to call me out on my really terrible handwriting. She's going to be my friend forever. So one of the things that I, you know, never really wanted to do was love, love following the work that you do. One of the things that stands out for me that's similar in the work that you do is you work in this space of building understanding. Yes. And I'd love to hear more about that. Like, what does that look for you look like for you, Salena? me, I've always dabbled with the opportunity of understanding. That's just always been a phrase of mine for many, many years. I noticed for myself, I had internalized racism most of my life. And I talk about that in my TEDx talk. For me, it was the opportunity of understanding why I had internalized racism for me to get over it. And then I give people that opportunity to understand my own story as well as Indigenous people's stories through my own story. I'm essentially providing them the opportunity to understand through my storytelling. And so understanding for me looks different in every capacity, whether I'm doing a speech or a workshop or I'm just having a conversation. I always enter it non-judgmental because I had racism once. my own people, for people around me. I was there judging myself. And I can't blame anyone for having those judgments if they didn't have the opportunity to understand. And so I see myself as this stepping stool for many people in their learning journeys and understanding like their own stories through my own. And so I truly make people have that opportunity to understand. And that's beautiful part of public speaking I find is that No matter what you say, if you're sharing your truth, people will find their truth in it. Oh well said, well said. What does that look like for you Divya? Building understanding. For me, think it's all taken from my own experience. When I moved to Canada, I was dying outside and I didn't really know what what the term indigenous was at that point. And I think I was confused as to why they were, you you would see certain demographic of folks like on the streets or who are part of the houses population. I remember like, I was almost happy that day. But I was very, so I, and I think I was really putting in the sense to be able to learn. But a lot of this throughout my, like, school journey where we learned about like, Louis Riel and. what truth and reconciliation was and how that sort of came to be. And I think part of that journey was also with Salena because I never had like an indigenous... oh happened through our connection together. And one of the things that, you know, I often talk about is some of the similar stereotypes. it's because like I'm obviously ethnically Indian and Salena is Indigenous. So then how do we like connect on that? And oftentimes there's a lot of stereotypes that are super, super similar. so how can we unpack that, and then how do you build solidarity with that? And I think that's what, in my opinion, what a relationship is, is just for us to as colleagues, co-workers, whatever you want to call it, is really, really, really built off of just that mutual understanding. And then coming at it from like other angles, I think for me having like a student perspective really, really helps because oftentimes like I, and this is sort of interesting is often I get asked why are we having to take like that indigenous requirement course at university and why is it required? I shouldn't have to learn about this and I think sometimes I think that sort of when I hear that like it's it's a shock to me but the more I kept thinking about it the more I'm like okay yeah like it makes sense because if you're like an international student this is like your first time kind of meeting that. new reality that they're in and really being able to turn the business into how you can understand what the implications are that are in the very real world. I think for like once again being someone from India like I learned about our colonial past super super late in the game as well. So I think in that sense like there's a lot of histories here that are intertwined that I think also like suppression of women in various cultures in various to colonization is really, really challenging. And then I'm starting to write my thesis, and I'm taking my degrees in global political economy. And think one of the connotations in that is just the idea of like, we're in a capitalist world, right? And the society's so organized around this uh one sort of system. And although we're in the system, how do we continue building solidarity? Because the system isn't meant to solve it. It's built on competition. One of that I want to say is that, you know, that lack, a lot of people... from that lack mindset. Like if someone gets this opportunity, there's not enough for me in the world. And I think one of the biggest revolutions that Salena and I had is that there's actually enough for everyone in this world. More than enough. And how do we build each other to get that and we all win when we all win. And you know, I love that so much. That's a huge part of what I've been saying for the last little while is we need to stop coming from that scarcity mindset. And if I think of the world that I come from, was there trauma? Absolutely. Was there suppression, oppression? Absolutely. And I can dwell in that. I can also unpack that. and move forward and find some deliverance, find some forces of power, some kinds of blessings in that. I, part of my journey coming back, because I didn't know what you were saying, you know, that alignment, if you will, with who you really are has been about just settling into this idea that, my goodness, I come from so much abundance. And I truly, truly feel that to a point where the next part of my journey now is when I see a scarcity mindset, I actually feel sad. And when I see someone express that, I actually feel sad for them. But I don't know yet what I can do. about that other than to help build that understanding that there's so much in this world that we can do together. We don't need that competition. can... do so much together and collaborate with each other and actually support each other because that's also how you build trust. And one of the biggest things I hear in the world of conflict and resolving conflicts is, oh, I can't work with you I don't trust you. Maybe we can try. Maybe we can try to work on something small, and maybe that can be our stepping stone to building some trust over time. So tell me, I'd love to hear a little bit more about the power of stories. That's one of my favorite topics as you both know. And I also am a huge believer that when we share stories, stories are a way to create this container, if you will, where people can see themselves reflected in that story. What does that look like? And maybe they'll able to start with you this time. What does that look like for you? you? So on this note, I just want to say, I first of all, just want to say thank you for having us here and allowing us to share our story. But secondly, like I think when I saw that the brand was named Kahani, that was so that was such a powerful thing for me because that's what I grew up with. So it really allowed me to like focus on this idea of home even within Canada. And I just want to say thank you for building that here. For me, think stories is how Salena and I oftentimes connect because we share so much. Like there's nothing really, I would say off limits. Probably know every little detail. Like I know how much water Salena drank today. Listen. I should drink water Coca-Cola today. Wow. We're finding things out here. We're going to stretch this out. But for think me, storytelling was always... that allowed me to connect with people. So growing up, I remember my grandpa, you know, every night like he would read me a story or I would need to hear a story in order to sleep. And I remember when, you know, when the whole Malala thing happened, ah I remember like getting a newspaper. we would get newspapers at our house all the time. And I remember like me and my grandpa would be in the morning, like reading the newspaper. And I saw that story and I'm like, holy crap, like she's almost the same age as me. Why is this happening? And I think through stories, like real life stories, it humanizes things. And I think it puts things into perspective because you know there's a person at the end of it. And I think that's the beauty of storytelling because it allows you to... to ask questions. It allows for a lot of that. generational learning to happen because at least in my culture, that's how cultures pass down, right? Like oftentimes I ask my mom, like, why do we wear bangles? Why do we wear earrings? Why do we have all these customs? And there's so much to remember. But I think when you can connect with something really personal in your life, that's really, really, really profound. And I think It builds memory, it builds that connection, and I think most importantly it builds trust, which is at the end of the day what the world's operating on. Yeah, well said, well said. Salena, tell me what stories mean to you. Stories? been in lot of relationships with those Like, obviously grew up in state because of them. Many of them are the older generation of the indigenous. We see them younger inside. I know what you're saying that it's difference. to what's happening, you're giving it power. But I've never seen it that way. For me, I started public speaking at 11 because Because I was in a system where I felt like I was defined by the network. Like I was just a network. It was the system that people look like we were all the same. We all have the same stories, the same reasons, the same reasons. We were all the same system. I mean, it got true. to be out there. And so when I started speaking about my experiences of being a foster kid, my experiences of what it was like to have siblings living with FASD, all of these different terms. realize that sometimes it's in words. These stories can be a little bit confusing. And I didn't realize that I could. about like 14 or 15 when I realized those stories were able to impact other human beings. I love stories so much because everybody can take something from a story. And once I was able to really put my life into words, I realized how um like incredible storytelling could be. I... I think part of the idea of friendship is about storytelling. And I know this is a story about a tool that you will use. When I found out my mom passed away, I immediately called Divya. got. And I told her, this is what happened. My mom's gone. And being able to say it, I how I would just come out of it and trust so much, it made me feel like I was able to say it in the first place. Like, I knew that I people that said, could you be able to do the world would be able to hear it too. And then from there, I created the Anita Project because my mom, she was homeless after I went to foster care. And then in December, she went missing in 2023. In June of 2024, her body was found decomposing because she had frozen to death in December. And at that moment, I was in a peak of my career, I felt like. I'd just done my TEDx talk a few days prior, and I had thought I was succeeding so much in my public speaking career. I had just shared this huge story on stage. This is what I want my life to be. I'm succeeding so much. And then that happened to me in finding out that my mom passed away so tragically. I felt like I couldn't ever speak again because this human who gave me life that I never had the opportunity to really know. She was taken before I ever got to talk to her. But getting to share that with Divya, uh getting to share everything with Divya, uh it makes me be able to really be able to put things into words. And just getting to share that story with Divya and how my mom passed away and how I found out. right after, it's really deeply personal because everything I've ever spoken about publicly has been things that I've lived through and that I've had time to process. And then I think like two days after that, I had a workshop and I spoke about it in the workshop because I speak about Indigenous history, what's happening, um what it was like being in foster care, but the fact that I was able to put into words to Divya what had happened to my mom, I was able to do it on a stage. a few days after while I was still healing and working through it. so storytelling for me really isn't just about the story, it's how I'm growing through speaking and being able to process it while I'm on stage. And I think the beautiful thing is for me when I storytell and people take something from it, I feel like I'm also healing. I'm healing with them. And it's just like this mutual journey that storytelling has incredibly given me. So I love storytelling. of your Yeah. Well, thank you so much for sharing that, Salena. It feels very special that you would share that with us today. So thank you. And, Divya, for you, for holding space for Salena when that happened. You know, I've always talked about how the relationship... uh we know that there's these storytellers, there's great, phenomenal storytellers who can work charismatic, who can draw you in and win them, know, when you're listening to their words, reading their words. It's like they're in the room with you. I've always thought that it's not just about good storytelling, a good storytelling. is not just about the storyteller. It's that relationship between the storyteller and the story listener. And I've reflected so much over the years when I've had to exercise those moments of bravery to, know, am I going to tell the story? I, you know, I generally have an idea of what I might say that day, but then I leave the rest somehow to the universe and say, you know, we'll see how it goes. because I want to enter the room and then see what comes up. Because to me, that would be the real authentic thing that emerges in that conversation. And often, for me, that's the energy of the room and what I feel the storytellers are inviting in the form of a story. And sometimes I'll walk off stage and go, I definitely went TMI there. um And that is my response. recognize that. And other times I tell myself that even though I'm feeling this anxiety about having shared that, think the story was ready to come out. And so, yeah, I just love that relationship that we build when we tell stories with the people who we tell stories to. And if it's done well... there's space for the storyteller to see. little fragments of themselves in the story. And it is such an accessible way to build that understanding. you've both probably heard me joke about this, that if we told stories about food, everyone has something deep fried in their culture they can talk about, right? You may not be able to talk about global political economy, because not all of us are as smart as Divya, but we could all talk about something deep fried in our cultures. Because we all have something like that and we can talk about how we learned how to make it or what was it like the first time it was too spicy when we ate it. So for us that's the power of stories and sometimes they're more powerful than others but ultimately they bring people together. Absolutely. And I think I recently actually read this quote and it said like, you come with you come into this world with empty hands and you leave this world with empty hands. But when you're in this world, leave a piece of you here for everyone to remember. And I think for Salena and I, at least that's oftentimes through stories. And even if it's just between the two of us, I think that in itself is very special. Well, I always loved hearing your stories from both of you and it's like every time I meet you I want to hear more about you know what else have you both been up to and I would encourage you to keep sharing your stories because you truly truly inspire a lot of young people and I've I've said this to you both before. when I came to this country, in my entire undergrad, there was only one professor who was a person of colour, and that was my honey home team. And she was my instructor for, I think at the time it was called Aboriginal Justice course. And she was the only person of colour who I met in my four years. Now I look around, things are changing. And I love that things are changing, but there's so much more to do and there's so much more to go. So never stop sharing your story. It is so inspiring and there's always more to learn. And thank you so much for making time for me today. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Shomia. And thank you for, of course, holding space for us to do this today. The work that you do, I think, inspires the both of us. Like, I wish I could tell you how excited we were to see you. And I'm really excited to be here you. We really hope you'll be here because each of you is so special. So I need more time to share some of the kill about you. always meaningful. So thank you for holding space for us today. you. Thank you. Thank you. I'm so good. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for sharing. Salena. That was very special. It felt good. Yeah. oh I have been on for many, years, from years of never talking about my identity, who I am, my people, to now, like... I'm sort of unstoppable. You really are. Yeah. I love it. Like, it fuels me. Sometimes I get angry about it, some people ask me about it, I go see it. But it's like, there's so much there. And the more I do, the more people come and say that Oh, like, here's my story. Like, I want to tell you about myself. those are my favorite moments when we share stories. When some random person comes up to you and says, thank you. oh those are the moments that we really, really cherish. find like it's and I know the answer I think because I am this way whenever someone asks me how do find the time to do all of this? What does that actually look like for the two of you? That's complicated question for me. guess I'm probably having problems constantly. Sure. so I'm everywhere all at once. And whenever those questions come in, they seem to come in when I'm not. busy. Yeah. I'm like, I'm just hanging out. Yeah. And so whenever I'm like my most busy, find that people don't ask me those questions. Um, but I've, I've never found it was difficult to manage everything. I feel like when you're doing the right thing, it all just feels so amazingly you like if you're doing it for a reason, but if you also feel overwhelm doing it, I've always, found that like trust yourself. Um, if you're overwhelmed while doing it, probably shouldn't be doing it. Yeah. Yeah. Honestly, like an EA. Both of you need good oh EA's. to hire one. Yeah, there's like it's so hard to find a good. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, you'll love working for Singapore. We're in California right now Pretend she's not there. So I have this calendar and it's like a spread of a week from like 6 AM to 11 PM. Oh my gosh. I do it like it's there. and wherever like what I've found is like I Have started to prioritize things. So like one the hardest things for me was saying no, I'm still Horrible at it. Really are it's pretty rough. But um, it's just like whatever you like let's say said whatever feels right and it's like for, let's say someone said like always for this call, it's like something that I'm talking about. There's no way I'm saving up for that. I don't think space for it. For me, and this always just comes down to like, can't even be like, is this helping someone? Is this going to make me a better person? And that's where it really comes down to. And now I get it, I was like, It's like, yeah, it's a great idea. You know, at some point, like I've had to find the way to say no. 25. yeah. And also how like, yeah, I have such a hard time saying no. But I've learned over the years that I only have so much capacity. And when I when I'm, the way my heat, I'm working through my own healing journey, my capacity may actually reduce over time. And that's the natural process of coming to terms with, I don't need to prove anything to anyone, right? Because I lived through that phase for many, years. was like, your place, prove that you're worth it. prove that you deserve to be at that table, even if everybody else at this table is middle-aged white men. Prove that you're worth it, right? Earn your respect. So was always this like, fight, fight, fight, fight, fight. And then a few years ago, I'm like, I looked around me and I thought, I don't have to fight anymore. m I don't have to live like this. I never had to live in a way that I don't have to fight for a place on table anymore. And that's what I realize that, oh, you do have to prioritize. So one of my tricks for prioritizing is I have someone else say no for me. I think