SPEAKER_05 0:11

Welcome to Between the Threads, a podcast exploring the threads that connect us: story, memory, identity, and meaning, and how they weave the fabric of peace in our lives and communities. Between the Threads is a joint initiative between Kahani and Narratives. Kahani is a nonprofit organization that amplifies storytelling for peace building. And Narratives is an award-winning planning and design firm based in Winnipeg, Canada. Welcome to episode number 10 of Between the Threads. We have Dr. Izadin Hamante. I will talk briefly about that word doctor when we get to it. Izadin was born and raised in the West Bank, Palestine. He's the anti-racist education professional learning initiative coordinator for three Metro School Divisions. With a doctorate in peace and conflict studies from the University of Manitoba, he's a public speaker focusing on the power of stories for community healing. Izadeen founded Sada Echoes to promote dialogue, storytelling, and respecting diverse narratives. His Unbounded Stories series connects Canadians with the human side of the Palestinian story. He's a featured TEDx Winnipeg speaker. Izadeen encourages shared experiences by asking the question, what is your story? Welcome, is to the show.

SPEAKER_00 1:37

Thank you for having me. Thank you to your team and for all the love that you give me when I walk in your building. I can feel it. So after a long day, today was a long day. I could feel that I'm starting to heal as soon as I sit with you.

SPEAKER_05 1:52

Oh, thank you. Thank you. Is also we welcome you because you always come with food.

SPEAKER_00 1:57

So that is that is the story we're always trying to share. It is the food story, eating together, to be in community together. So I'm honored always to eat with you all.

SPEAKER_05 2:08

Awesome. So is you always ask the question, what is your story?

SPEAKER_00 2:12

So today I'd like to ask, what was what was little is like oh you're bringing me back to places and to to to to stories. Um I grew up in Palestine, uh in uh first centifada, the uprising. I was born in the first centifada, then I grew up uh in it. Uh that part of the world uh is complex, uh lots of dichotomies to balance. Uh in occupied Palestine, you uh you you try to balance life under oppression and you know war and conflict with hope, smiles, and and family and and looking forward to a better future. So I grew up with those with the with these two notions. Uh I heard it in my family, I experienced it in my community. I've seen people um try to make beautiful things out of uh out of pain uh and try to combine community and promote hope, hope, and joy, even though everything around them uh said, do not do that. And so I I was uh influenced, shaped by people who said, if you want to smile, smile, even if there is a war outside the door. And I carry that with me everywhere I go today. And so uh young uh as a Dean uh would have witnessed two opposing dichotomies in which I grew up in a in a homeland where there are uh where there were uh land so vast, an old ancient olive tree, um, beautiful clear skies. That was home. But at the same time, there were checkpoints, uh big separation walls, um uh army and soldiers everywhere, pain, destruction. That too is home. And as a young person, you find yourself trying to hold those two things together, and in doing so, uh the load gets heavier and heavier by the minute. And so to share it, to make sure you hold that and to carry it, you have to tap it into your community and you have to be in community. So I've learned from the early moments of uh my childhood that first you don't eat alone, you simply don't. And that's why here in Winnipeg, everywhere I go, I try to bring food. Because before I do anything with you, I want to share my kitchen with you.

unknown 4:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:49

And the Palestinians are very generous people and they love to eat with people. And the second thing I learned from my grandmother is that you cannot truly know someone unless you eat with them. So I think uh the work that I try to do here uh comes back always to those upbringing uh teachings where um eat with people, invite people into your home, and share your stories with bride.

SPEAKER_05 5:16

Yeah, and actually, as I remember the first time we met, we're meeting at a coffee shop and you brought you brought food.

SPEAKER_00 5:24

That's right. Because there is this belief, we believe that once you eat with me, um maybe I'll use the word Arabic, you know, the Arabic word we say halas. That's it. You become family, you know? Yes, you now have become part of my family. That's it. Whether I see you today in or in two years or three years, there is this bond. I am going to look after you, I'm going to look after your children and grandchildren. And so uh I want to start any relationship with that intention, with the intentionality of I'm not here just to do this work or to do business and so on. I'm here to challenge colonial ways of thinking.

SPEAKER_04 6:06

Right.

SPEAKER_05 6:07

Yeah. How do you that comes from a place of such openness in your heart? Right? You when you meet someone, you you're meeting with that love, you're carrying that love on your sleeve. What does reciprocity look like?

SPEAKER_00 6:25

I I think uh to go back to the first question, I think being born and raised in uh you know in Palestine under occupation, I think occupation is intended uh to make you feel alone. It's designed to make you feel like you cannot give love to people around you and to you to your community and to your neighbors. So we make a conscious decision to love more, to give more, to eat more. And so to to for me, anything, if I want anything in return, is for you to come and eat with me.

SPEAKER_04 6:58

Right.

SPEAKER_00 6:59

To be part of that relationship. Here in Winnipeg, uh, it takes a while for people to warm up to the idea in some in some spaces where people go, uh, oh, you you brought food. Oh, like to a to a job interview or to to uh a very you know structured meeting. Uh we didn't know that we were bringing food.

SPEAKER_04 7:24

Right.

SPEAKER_00 7:24

And and now you have to get into this conversation where you're like, it's okay.

SPEAKER_04 7:29

It's okay.

SPEAKER_00 7:29

I just have food and I hope it's enough.

SPEAKER_04 7:32

Yeah. Right?

SPEAKER_00 7:33

And I hope you can eat with me. And yes, it's not on the agenda, but uh let's make time for it.

SPEAKER_05 7:40

Yeah, yeah. So we've you've spoken about food already.

SPEAKER_00 7:45

Are you a cook or you know, my my mother is a cook. Uh, I've learned uh many dishes. I I'm not as good as her. Um I I my favorite dish is uh you know, hummus, and and I try to make it with perfection as as much as I'm able to. But my mom's uh way of making hummus uh is is it is directly in relationship with the land. And the way she makes hummus uh is the way that she says, if you smell my hummus, come and eat. You know, and so I always try to make my hummus filled with smells, so anybody who smells it, you know, uh can come and be part of the uh of the meal. But uh I'm learning.

SPEAKER_05 8:28

Yeah, that's amazing. So I started the introduction today by referring to you as doctor. Now there's an important piece there that I'd like to share with people. So the day is defended. Was it your your dissertation? I remember you messaged me and you said, Sister, you now have to call me a doctor. That's right. And I changed your contact on my phone and said, Is wanna be called a doctor? And then they sent you a screenshot of that. But in I would love to hear more about what that experience for you was like.

SPEAKER_00 9:08

I think uh by starters, I want to say there is a WhatsApp group that I have with friends who they ended up naming the WhatsApp group as anyone can get a PhD, just to talk about the same thing. Because I asked them to call me a doctor out of love, of course.

SPEAKER_05 9:24

And I will just say I did this purely because, as I said to you back then, that someday when you become the prime minister of this country, someone is going to have to need to humble you. And that would be me.

SPEAKER_00 9:37

You know, uh, this title and titles like it, we uh uh for me at least, I have to consider where they come from and what they're used for. And so uh we all know that titles, at least in the colonial structures that we exist in, uh, can uh become a preventative from getting into communities. Yeah, we come from the Muslim communities, and there are titles historically, uh, and people who carry those titles uh who are uh who may not be welcomed in our communities because of the lack of trust that we've had with uh quote-unquote researchers and research and so on in the past. Now, to flip it, uh I also want to spend time thinking about what does such a title do for people who are like me working in colonial structures to change them. And I think of young Muslim people, young Muslim students that I meet, and when I talk to them about being able to challenge the systems that I'm in using that title, they their eyes lit. Uh, and I appreciate that because I want them to feel like uh that is part of their journey if they decide to go down that route. And if they want to be uh proud of that title or use it, they can. And I think uh I I use it to also highlight resiliency. PhD wasn't easy, uh you know, six years uh trying uh you know to do this, uh in and often in places where you couldn't see yourself represented, your story was not the story. Uh often you had to leave it at the door uh before getting into the building.

SPEAKER_02 11:17

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 11:17

Um, and so when you get it, when you get that title, you ask yourself, what could I do with it? Yeah, how could I use this title to make it better for people from my community and others who will walk into these spaces after me? So I'm mindful when and where I use it.

SPEAKER_02 11:35

Right.

SPEAKER_00 11:36

Uh and how I use it. And with my family and friends and communities, it's uh it's a thing that we joke about and nobody actually uses it to call me.

SPEAKER_05 11:44

But yeah, I'm still not gonna. That's right. No, that's that's great. And I think you know, there's so much pride associated with that, and I I really appreciate the the spotlight there is on what these titles can mean in our communities. And you know, when I reflect on any time I've had an academic achievement, like it makes my dad cry because it was not his experience growing up. And and for him in particular, like he's um he's had to fight for in a lot of ways for his daughter to have the education and to have the space. So anytime there's an a sense of achievement, it comes with that realization of everything that you've had to give up as a family to get there. So it's also so for us, I would say, you know, some of these titles come with weight, come with responsibility.

SPEAKER_00 12:41

Yeah, and uh I mean, uh, I'm the first one in my family to get a a PhD. Not to say that I hold most knowledge, absolutely not. My land and my grandmother and my mother hold all knowledge. But it is this reflection that you start to gain and the achievement piece, as you talked about. Like, here is us in a system that was not designed for us. No, but we made it work by our resiliency, by uh the fact that we we tapped into community, we stuck together, and we were able to get to the finish line. And when I graduated, I remember my mother standing and uh zaghing. I don't know what you call it in English, is the ululiting?

SPEAKER_02 13:25

Is that how you say it?

SPEAKER_00 13:28

I don't know exactly how. I know what you mean. Yeah, like it's a loud uh celebratory uh sound uh in the Palestinian culture, and there is this big space filled with hundreds of people at the UVM, and my mom's standing there, you know, just singing Palestinian traditional songs.

SPEAKER_04 13:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:46

I think what she's telling the world that we are here.

SPEAKER_04 13:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:50

We are here, get to know us, and despite all the challenges, despite years and years of war and living in uh uh in uh in under occupation, we're still hopeful, we're still joyful, we're still able to make and and and and do things.

SPEAKER_05 14:09

Yeah, I love that celebration, so all of those elements can coexist. And I think that's a very, very human experience, and in a lot of ways, we all embody a lot of those. We'll be right back. You know, stories and that connection with stories, and you're a phenomenal storyteller. This podcast may also be the only time that I give is compliments because it doesn't usually happen. So I feel like some of this story. So with the how do you go from becoming this, you know, young is who's listening to the stories of from your grandparents to becoming a phenomenal storyteller yourself?

SPEAKER_00 15:04

There are lots of reasons. And I don't know if the word storyteller describes me. I I'm somebody who echoes stories that I've listened and heard and carry within my mind and heart from my grandmother and my family. I try to be the story carrier, protector, story holder, uh is one of these things. But uh uh the reason for for me for for me to share stories is that in Winnipeg, often uh I I I looked around and people who were talking about Palestine, at least in certain settings, were not Palestinian. And I've asked a big question, like, where are my people? Right. Why why why is so-and-so telling my story? And do they know it? And who invited them in it?

SPEAKER_04 15:49

Right.

SPEAKER_00 15:50

And so you know, you get into this very intimate conversation with your soul. Can I tell my grandmother's story the way she told it? And if I could, where do I start?

SPEAKER_02 16:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:03

Um, which lines do I begin with? And so finally, after many years, you work up the courage to write down the first line. And then the second line follows. And eventually you're writing one of your grandmother's stories in her kitchen. Um, and you stand in front of a mirror, you don't open your eyes and you read it. Uh, and you memorize it, and you memorize it again, and you try to read it again, and you share it eventually with someone in your family. And everybody goes, Yeah, I remember that when my grandma used to do that. And I remember when Teta used to say that. And eventually you say, What if the story leaves the house and finds its way in many places around Winnipeg? Would they see my grandmother and my land and my home the way I see it? And so I wanted to use stories to humanize the Palestinian narrative. Uh, you know, and I know very often the Muslims and the Palestinians are betrayed in a certain light in the media. Uh and coming here to Winnipeg shortly after 9-11. That was always my experience many times.

SPEAKER_04 17:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:16

And I'm like, those people you're showing on TV are not the people I know.

SPEAKER_04 17:20

Right.

SPEAKER_00 17:20

They're not the people I grew up with. I know people who would open their hearts and homes and feed you and take care of you, just because you're a passerby.

SPEAKER_04 17:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:30

And so I started using storytelling um to or sharing stories to invite people into my story to know it the way I know it. And so stories actually saved me. Saved me because uh I was finally able to find a purpose. Because being um, you know, today I learned a new word. It's the word kahr. K Q H E R. Kahr. There is no liter uh literal translation in English. The the bet the closest thing is anger.

SPEAKER_02 18:04

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:05

But in Arabic, agitation means resilient uh resistance fatigue. Oh, interesting, okay. Or something around that. Because you've been carrying this load for so long generations uh and their stories and their resil resistance on the back of your show on the b on your back. Right and eventually that pressure is so imprinted in your DNA, so printed in your cells that it just becomes so hard, it becomes so hard for you to breathe. In Palestine you feel and see kar everywhere. Sure. So stories became a counter to that.

SPEAKER_05 18:55

That makes sense. That makes so much sense. And I think about you know, ways in which there's such vulnerability when you when you start you know, that moment from uh writing the story down to standing in front of the mirror to say the story. And then I remember when I first started sharing stories, I used to wonder if is the world going to receive these stories? Will they respect, will they actually see the nuance of what these stories carry? Because I I felt that need to also protect those stories. How do you balance that, if at all?

SPEAKER_00 19:37

I think I think we all go through these stages. And I uh for me, uh uh it was like if I said it, would they believe it?

SPEAKER_04 19:43

Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:45

Uh well will they say that didn't happen? You're lying, or that can't be true. And so you start to get into your head, uh if I maybe I should just write it and keep it in my notebook. Right. And so there are stories that I've written many years ago. They're still in my notebook that every time I want to take them out, I I'm not too sure if if the world is ready to receive them. Right. Even the TEDx talk.

SPEAKER_04 20:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:11

Uh I wrote a story many, many months ago, before the TEDx. Sure. And then eventually I worked up the courage to use it. Um, and so the balance is often uh that intimate conversation uh with the ruh, which is the soul. Uh, you know, and and the answer lays within uh between I I say it lays within your heart, between a heartbeat and a heartbeat. And you have to look for it.

SPEAKER_02 20:37

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 20:38

And so one day you you you decide to do it, and the next you're like, nope. Not not here, not now.

SPEAKER_05 20:45

Absolutely. And you know, when I think about the moments where I've walked into I always talk about this sort of sacred relationship between a storyteller and a story listener. And often when I'm invited to share in a setting, I may have some ideas for what am I talking about. And then the real answer, though, of what emerges comes when I enter the room.

SPEAKER_00 21:11

That's right.

SPEAKER_05 21:12

And when I have the first few conversations with people in the room, because that somehow in the moment speaks to me for what story this room is ready for and what story am I ready to share? How is that experience for you as a storyteller?

SPEAKER_00 21:28

I think that has shaped me. I I've you've become better at it. Sure. Right. And so uh you and I joked about that often. You're like, uh, do you have any happy stories? You know? I and uh and and I do. Uh and so lately I've been trying to ask myself, what do I want my friends and community members in Winnipeg to walk away with once they hear me? So, of course, the being occupied and occupation is a big story for me as a Palestinian. It shapes who I am. But there are other stories that I want you to know.

SPEAKER_02 22:00

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 22:00

Joyful stories. So I've been trying to bring those stories in new settings and sharing them. And the responses I've been getting are I I never thought. Right. Because people connect to those stories. I have an aunt who used to be like your aunt, I would I would be told. Or my grandmother used to do the same thing. Oh, I have a food story too. And people would just come randomly and be like, that story you talked or you told reminded me of my friend who's no longer in Winnipeg. But I used to remember them doing one, two, three. Yeah. And I'm like, okay, so if I can find, you know, uh that balance, so-called balance, in telling what my family back home wants me to tell, which is tell tell people in Canada we are living under occupation.

SPEAKER_02 22:51

Right.

SPEAKER_00 22:51

We want to be free. But at the same time, tell them that we also get up in the morning and we are people who look for happiness. And we take care of our families, and we look after our neighbors, and we have beautiful food.

SPEAKER_05 23:07

Yeah. Well, those are stories that people can relate to, right? And we've we've been unpacking a lot on this episode or on this podcast, what makes a good story. And I love hearing different perspectives on what makes a good story. And one of the one of the strongest like themes that has been emerging is a good story has space for people to be in the story.

SPEAKER_00 23:32

You know, coming back from Palestine, one of my I've seen a lot of stories, witnessed lots of stories. But one of my favorites is that I was watering my olive tree. I have a small olive tree and I'm watering it. And all of a sudden I hear my neighbor calling from across the fence. I said, Dean, come, I have some figs for you. So he just handed me some figs. And he said, those are my fri my these from my fig tree, just um, you know, the in the backyard here. And we just chatted.

SPEAKER_04 24:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:01

Just chatted about our days and asked him about his kids, and we talked about what he's been up to and and so on. Uh in the past, I would have been like, in nobody wants, like nobody wants to know that in Canada. They want to know the occupation story only. But when I started sharing the human face of the story, and that's why Sada exists, yeah. Um, I'm starting to reach new places.

SPEAKER_04 24:23

Right.

SPEAKER_00 24:23

Trying to invite people in. Like even when I make, you know, my mom is making kinafa and I share a picture or a video of it. People go, Is that is that pizza? Somebody asked me the other day, is that pizza? It looks like pizza. Uh were you offended? No, I'm not at all. I said, No, it's a Palestinian dessert. And she's like, it looks so good. How do you make it?

SPEAKER_04 24:43

Nice.

SPEAKER_00 24:44

And so we started this conversation, and they shared with me what they make in their household. There you go. And I think that's the purpose of the unbounded stories. Is like, here is a bit of me. Here is parts of my life.

SPEAKER_05 24:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:59

Trying to be happy.

SPEAKER_05 25:00

You know what's really interesting is there is, and I'll speak for myself, I've always worried about the different parts of my identity. And, you know, as a as a Muslim woman, again, similar coming here right after 9-11, there were all these aspects of the identity that were really important to hold, to have in the public-facing arena. There was this pressure to demonstrate that the people that you see on TV are not like I'm not them. So there was sort of this like othering. And also there were parts of my identity that I had to hide away. It's like, no, I will not speak this way. I'll adjust how I show up.

SPEAKER_00 25:41

Right.

SPEAKER_05 25:42

And and I think as we go through life, as we accept more of our own stories, I think all parts of us start coming together. Come together.

SPEAKER_00 25:53

Yeah. And I think similarly for me, uh, you know, you c you came here, I came here as a refugee, and I remember clearly trying to get rid of my accent, for example.

SPEAKER_04 26:02

Right.

SPEAKER_00 26:03

You know, trying to sound quote unquote Canadian, whatever that is. You know? Uh but it's all because of the experiences we had and all the things we heard. And eventually, again, you go back to that mirror and you look at yourself. You're like, that's how I am, that's how I sound. What am I trying to get rid of? You know, and I sound that because I'm an Arabic speaker.

SPEAKER_04 26:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:26

That is what I'm trying, like, that was the the thing I was trying to hide, essentially.

SPEAKER_04 26:30

Right. Right? Sure.

SPEAKER_00 26:32

Because often we heard uh and our experiences took us to places where you you hear things like Arabic is a scary language.

SPEAKER_04 26:39

Right.

SPEAKER_00 26:40

Or don't speak that language here.

SPEAKER_04 26:42

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:44

Right? And you're like, so if I can get rid of the accent, maybe I can blend in easier. But you are right. Uh all the work that I do on story is actually uh took me to a place where I can finally find me.

SPEAKER_01 26:59

We'll be right back.

SPEAKER_05 27:08

Right. That's incredible. And you know that that journey with accents is such a such an interesting one. When I speak to my family, this is not what I sound at all. I sound very Punjabby, even in my English, when I speak to my family. And I one of my challenges over the last few years has been how do I code switch very quickly? So if I'm on a call with my parents and then I have to jump into a meeting, I gotta really quickly change my disc, if you will, to have that conversation. So when I was recording the audiobook version of Gajra, it required a lot of that switching back and forth. And every time I would go back home after a recording session, I would sit with the weight of that switch. And I it was remarkable to think that a particular recording session was maybe two hours. And I told myself, and you've been carrying this weight of switch back and forth for the last 20 plus years. So that switching becomes its own entity that we have to tackle with.

SPEAKER_00 28:20

Yeah, I remember when I was doing the PhD research, uh, there is a software you use to transcribe data. And again, the the software would have a hard time transcribing if you had an accent.

SPEAKER_04 28:34

Right, sure.

SPEAKER_00 28:36

And so you find yourself trying to speak a certain English, so that so that software, right? Yeah. And you're like, why? Yeah. And you know, you start looking for other, you know, you go out and you start to look for other things, other softways, other programs that can meet uh and appreciate the way human speaks. But I think that is why uh, you know, when we talk about stories and we bring people of color and you know, marginalized community members to share their stories, we must acknowledge that they carry a heavier burden.

SPEAKER_03 29:10

Oh, sure.

SPEAKER_00 29:11

Their stories uh are filled with much more uh you know details and so on, and and therefore we have to create spaces that can honor all that. But yeah, yeah, you know, in in in systems like education and other places, um, you know, that accent, for me at least, worked against me. Sure, of course. You know, I remember uh teaching uh when I started teaching, uh, you know, my accent was uh often uh people would be like, uh I can't understand you. Right? Could you, you know, uh what did you say? And it gets in your head eventually. Sure. Like, maybe I'm not good at this language. Right. Maybe I shouldn't speak. Maybe I only speak when I really, really have to. And so often uh, and I've seen this happen, and I've seen it continue to happen in the work I do today. Sometimes, you know, marginalized community members would just stay silent.

SPEAKER_04 30:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:08

It's not because they didn't have anything to say or they don't have stories to share. It is uh, at least in my experience, it was every time I tried to share, there were these, you know, backhanded comments that uh that made it super hard for me to continue to share or made it at least feel unwelcome.

SPEAKER_05 30:26

Yeah. And there's so many, you know, in the work that we do, and you and I have talked so much about how do we continue to create places for stories to be told and for all stories to be told. And there's there's magic, there's art, there's science, there's so many different approaches there. Silence does not necessarily mean that there's nothing to say.

SPEAKER_02 30:50

That's right.

SPEAKER_05 30:51

And silence may also mean that I have so much to say that I don't know where to begin. Silence may also mean just give me a minute and I'll get there. And you know, for for us, the more we work in this space, the more we want to continue to find ways for people to get past that silence that might be coming from a place of this is not a place for my story to be told.

SPEAKER_00 31:18

And how do we honor silence? Absolutely. Right. Um, I'm I you know, when I hear a beautiful story and I want to sit with it, uh, I might be silent for a while. Uh but also uh it has been historically used as a tool of oppression.

SPEAKER_02 31:40

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 31:40

Right? To silence others and and to uh silence people of color. And so how do we create spaces in which our stories uh can um uh be uh a motive, can be uh um, you know, well, you know, uh something of warmth. So people around us from our communities or people who have not been able to share their stories come to us or come be with us and say, you know what, I want to share a story too.

SPEAKER_05 32:06

Yeah. And there's there's an important nuance there. You know, we want to create places where people can tell their stories. That's great. Now, when we invite others to tell their stories, we also have to honor the ways in which they tell their stories. 100%. So some will be more emotive, yes, others will be quieter, others will be loud and expressive. And any space has to be able to honor those different ways of story, like bringing those stories to life. You know, for the last little while, I've been reflecting on this idea, and I am I can't remember now where it emerged, if it came from within or if it was something that someone had said around me. But it was sometimes in silence, with every breath that we take, it taps into one of the stories from our soul. And and I really love thinking about that because one, it encourages me to breathe. And with every breath, I'm trying to listen to the voices of my grandmothers.

SPEAKER_00 33:09

Right. And silence, for me at least now, is becoming uh a way of decolonization. It's uh the notion of slowing down.

SPEAKER_04 33:18

Right.

SPEAKER_00 33:19

Colonial systems are not used to slowing down, they they they want everything fast, they want you to be punctual, they're designed so you are always on task, they they are designed to have multitasks per day and you want to keep checking them. In fact, if you are not working hard, you're lazy.

SPEAKER_03 33:39

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:40

So showing up to a meeting or to showing up to an event and saying, I'm just gonna sit here for a while, have have a cup of tea. How's your family? Have you eaten today?

SPEAKER_04 33:50

Right.

SPEAKER_00 33:51

You know, uh, that challenges, that challenges the the heart of colonial structures.

SPEAKER_04 33:58

Right.

SPEAKER_00 33:59

And people sometimes don't know what to do with that.

SPEAKER_04 34:02

Right.

SPEAKER_00 34:02

Like even sitting in me in meetings and so on, and people go, and I go, you know what, I'm just gonna take some time, gonna make tea. Do you want some tea? They're like, we're only we have 45 minutes, man, to go. I'm like, yeah, let's just have some tea. And so trying to change the mindset. Because I think we have to ask the the big question what is the purpose of our gatherings? Uh is it to finish all this all these tasks? And that's important. We'll get to it.

SPEAKER_04 34:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:25

But have we bonded? Have we shared stories beyond my name is?

SPEAKER_05 34:29

Yeah. What? So uh there's so many thoughts in my head right now. One of one of those is so is this are you now telling me that you won't be punctual? So we'll we'll talk about that. I don't think I have been. No, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 34:43

Um for the longest time.

SPEAKER_05 34:45

You know, I want to go back to something that you said earlier is about trying to tell different stories. And and you and I have joked about, I've said, you know, you're the one who makes people cry, and then I'm the one who has to make them laugh. Um when we when we tell stories, how can we encourage people to tell stories in a way that helps them see the humanity of each other? And you know, it might be intuitive to you, but if someone is starting like story 101, and I really want to be able to tell a story where people can see me, where do they start?

SPEAKER_00 35:22

I think that's a big question. I think for me, I've been trying to reflect on that question throughout the work that I do. And I we just started a series of recordings and unbounded stories and so on. And I before I invite people, I ask, why am I inviting them?

SPEAKER_02 35:38

Right.

SPEAKER_00 35:38

Like, and and I think to answer that question, uh uh, you know, 100%. And for me, I think I want to work with people and share stories with them so they too start to uh believe that their story is worth of sharing if that's what they want to do anyway. Because often I hear things like in my work, I don't have a story to share.

SPEAKER_04 35:59

I hear that a lot. I don't know if you hear it too.

SPEAKER_00 36:01

Yeah, you know, as a teen, you have beautiful stories, they're heart-touching. I don't got nothing like that. I'm like, they don't have to be like mine. No, we all have and carry different stories.

SPEAKER_02 36:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:13

And so the the the uh conscious decision to start to share stories that uh people can connect with more, like food stories and and family stories and so on, is to try to tell people those stories that you hold all of us have are worth of sharing.

SPEAKER_04 36:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:30

And finally, I think uh the the the place and the space you set up, it all comes with love. If you if you set up a place that is inviting, caring, loving, uh, you know, people uh they they open up.

SPEAKER_02 36:45

They do.

SPEAKER_00 36:45

And in most people will share something with you. Yeah um and and it's natural. Uh, you know, you if you come to my home, my mom will just feed you and take care of you and make you sage tea. And and she'll ask about your family, and she'll ask about uh what are you what she can what can she make you to eat.

SPEAKER_02 37:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:06

And have you eaten? And before you leave, she'll give you food. And she'll say, When are you coming back?

SPEAKER_04 37:12

Right.

SPEAKER_00 37:13

And don't be too long before you come back. And she'll ask about your cousins, and she'll ask about all those things. Uh, if you do them and you mean them, I think people start to go. I I I think that reminds me of so-and-so. I think that's when the story sharing starts to happen.

SPEAKER_05 37:31

Yeah, and I think it also there's something so beautifully human about that. You know, we of course you feel loved. You feel loved and you feel heard, you feel seen. And then you almost come to a place where you tell yourself, I can trust this person with my story. And I often feel like sometimes I'll walk out of a setting where, you know, I might have shared a story because in the moment it felt like that story needed to be told. And then later I'll sit there and go, Oh, TMI. Like I just how did I, how did I let that one come out? And then I have to watch myself and unpack the psychology of why I feel that way, and also tell myself that that's okay. That's a sacred space that we were able to create together. And I think because people, when you create that space in earnest with honesty, it stories then emerge.

SPEAKER_00 38:29

Yeah, people become uh guests and they start to be part of your story. And I think I've learned now that um I used in the past try to tell stories so people can feel my story and be like, you know, yes, Azadeen, you're right, and this is happening and so on. And the minute I stop trying to convince people of my story, I just want to tell it. And it's an invitation. And I always say, if you want to see my story, I'm happy to take you to Palestine.

SPEAKER_04 39:00

Right.

SPEAKER_00 39:00

And I mean that. If you want to come to my home and let me show you what I'm telling you, I'll take you.

SPEAKER_04 39:07

Right.

SPEAKER_00 39:08

And once you start to do that, it just becomes part of the air. It's it becomes entangled in the air, in the sun, in the grass, in the land, within someone else's story, and automatically their story now or stories become entangled within you.

SPEAKER_04 39:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:29

And I think being in that space is what I'm trying to do.

SPEAKER_01 39:35

We'll be right back.

SPEAKER_05 39:44

That's such a beautiful reminder of the power of stories to come together. Where that was essentially the the main principle behind those workshops, where it was like stories being weighted together to create a bit of a collective story.

SPEAKER_00 39:59

Right. And the weedshaft needs the soil. And it needs the hands to take care of it.

SPEAKER_02 40:04

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 40:04

And it needs the rain and the sun. Um, but you you look at the weedshaft and you don't ask why is this seed over here and why that seed is over there.

SPEAKER_04 40:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:14

They just happen to be the way they happen to be. And the way they sit together is um is is the the decision of so many things. The land, yeah, the mist, the water, the sun, the clouds. Um, and they just are there. And you can be part of that.

SPEAKER_04 40:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:36

And so um when you create that, people uh naturally are drawn to light.

SPEAKER_05 40:44

Yeah. I love that invitation. You know, there's an expression uh which I'm translating in my head, which roughly translates to when when I said when she said I believed her. When she insisted I questioned it. When she promised, I knew it was not true. And it's sort of this beautiful reminder to just be. And it also, I remember my uh my Miyagi, my great-grandfather, would always say that the best way to resist, and he would reflect on um his experience during the partition years and you know, British colonization. And he would often say, the best way to resist is to just be. And at the time that didn't make sense because to be seemed like a passive, lazy approach of some sort. Like, what do you mean, just be? I gotta do something. I didn't realize that to just be would become such a big deal.

SPEAKER_00 41:49

You know, so we talk all the time about how hyper I might be or can can bring to the space. But that was a realization of just being. Because often I needed to code switch.

SPEAKER_04 42:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:02

You know what? In this space, I can't be me. I should tone it down.

SPEAKER_04 42:06

Right.

SPEAKER_00 42:08

But just being me. This is who you get. This is me. I come here with energy. I am somebody who wants to know you and someone who wants to feed you. And and so just being you, no matter where you are, I think is the ultimate uh achievement. Uh, you know, uh people ask me, what are your plans when I go back to home? They're like, what are you gonna do in Palestine? Yeah like they think I have a long list of advocacy things, you know, and I'm like, I'm gonna open this, I'm gonna start a center there, open up like I'm not gonna do none of this.

SPEAKER_02 42:42

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:42

I'm just going to be on my land with my family.

SPEAKER_02 42:45

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:47

And if you think that's not a sm a big thing, think again.

SPEAKER_02 42:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:53

I'm going to be uh I'm gonna exist in one of the most complicated places uh under occupation, but still stay rooted.

SPEAKER_05 43:03

Yeah, yeah. And I think that's really the the heart of of it all is how we can stay rooted. What does it look like ahead when you think of the power of stories and the work that you do?

SPEAKER_00 43:17

We all have dreams. Of course. You know, um my biggest dream is to be able to bring sada, sada echoes, and to share stories in every corner of our city. I really hope one day I can eat with as many people as I possibly can here in Winnipeg. That's the big goal. Uh and the second goal, I would love one day to bring people from Winnipeg to my home in Palestine to show them the olive trees and to tell them this is where I grew up, you know, uh, and and to show them that this home will always be part of me.

SPEAKER_02 43:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:54

Um and so I keep working towards these goals. So on this goal, on this Podcast. It's an open invitation that will always be open to anybody's listening. If you want to come to Palestine, just reach out.

SPEAKER_05 44:08

Amazing. Incredible. The last question I have for you is why do all my Arab friends say my name wrong?

SPEAKER_00 44:16

I think because in Arabic we have a name Soumaya. And Soumaya is a very well-known Arabic name. That's true. And so you read it and you're like, oh, okay. She's Muslim. She must be Somay.

SPEAKER_05 44:28

I've had so many of these conversations with my Arab friends where I say Somia and they're like, uh-uh.

SPEAKER_00 44:34

But let me correct you. You don't know your own name.

SPEAKER_05 44:36

Somay. Uh-uh-uh-uh. No, it's Somia.

SPEAKER_00 44:40

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 44:40

And I I love the confidence.

SPEAKER_00 44:43

Yeah, they're like, you don't know what your your name. Your let me help you pronounce it. Yeah, I think it is because of that. And and so learning uh why, you know, how you say it in another culture.

SPEAKER_03 44:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:57

I think uh that's the story, and that's how you we can break, you know, build these bridges. But again, in Arabic, it's Somalia.

SPEAKER_05 45:04

I and you know that's we'll keep we'll keep working with that one. Anything you'd like to leave listeners with today?

SPEAKER_00 45:11

I I'd say that in a broken world, uh we must care for our children. Find young people in your life, find uh young people in your neighborhoods and look after them. Uh, as someone who does work on Palestine, a lot of people go, What can I do in Winnipeg? I say, Have you eaten with your neighbors?

SPEAKER_02 45:31

Right.

SPEAKER_00 45:31

Find out who your neighbors are, reach out to them, say, uh, I'm cooking dinner on Thursday, do you have time to come eat? Or make some food and walk the over and say, Here is uh and don't don't do it because you want an invitation back.

SPEAKER_02 45:44

Right.

SPEAKER_00 45:45

Just do it. Um and so if we if we practice that, you know, our indigenous brothers and sisters tell us that here on this land, if we practice that, if we become part of really if we develop a really a healthy, good relationship with the land, the land can sustain us, can take care of us. And I think uh that's what uh we should do here in Winnebag and keep working towards, uh especially as a city that is trying to you know be mindful of the calls to actions and re you know, under reconciliation and so on. So for me, uh I do this work simply to invite people to come and eat with me and to uh share their stories.

SPEAKER_05 46:26

Shukran, thank you so much as for being with us today, for sharing your stories, for sharing a beautiful glimpse into your home and for spending time with us today.

SPEAKER_00 46:37

Shukran, thank you, Shawmiya. Thank you to you for your team and to your team. Thank you for the opportunity. And uh I hope one day I can host you and in Palestine and feed you in Palestine.

SPEAKER_04 46:48

Inshallah.

SPEAKER_00 46:48

Take care, Shukran.